Well, an excellent gay farang blog.

My Thai diary/boyfriend

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Well,an excellent gay farang blog. I find it worth reading myself, though I don't always agree with the writer's point of view (which is probably natural). If nothing else, he has definitely chosen a different path than most foreign expats in Bangkok and that makes him interesting.

Mugging By Blind Date Pretender

A good friend of mine was recently held up at gunpoint at an apartment building on upper Sukhumvit when he went to meet someone who was a supposed date. The "date" had contacted him through a Gaydar profile. When my friend, who was a tourist, arrived and went to the "date"'s room, another man was waiting with him. They drew a gun, cuffed my friend, and went through his wallet, removing the cash and credit cards. Then they brought my friend out to the main road, gave him 100B and told him to get in a taxi quietly.

My friend contacted the Thai police immediately and filed a complaint, and went back with them to the apartment building but the room was empty and the manager had no idea about who the two men were or how to contact them. My friend was also less than impressed with the attitude of the police.

Of course, my friend was a little unwise in arranging a first meeting with a stranger in a private place, and in bringing any unnecessary valuables to that meeting. It only goes to show that there are reasons for taking precautions over the internet; thank goodness he wasn't hurt. Let this be a warning to the rest of us- be careful and use common sense out there.

"Steven"

Loving Thai Boy, so cute in his college uniform

I made my first false break with B. around Songkran, when it became clear to me that he was lying about his income and unwilling, no matter how softly, softly I tried to convince him to talk to me about his life, to tell me the truth. A week or so later of calls every day crying and begging for me to reconsider, I told him that he would have to get a normal (i.e., non-bar-related) job where I could go and see him working if he wanted to keep dating me (incidentally, I recommend this for all those who have potentially dodgy partners).

He was reluctant, but agreed to do so without a time frame. Internally, I was giving him about 3 months before I would unilaterally give up on him completely. Of course, this affected our relationship negatively in almost every area. We were having more arguments and he was more moody.

However, he seemed to step up to bat. He had employment photos and copies of his high school papers made, and frequently went off to interview wearing his college uniform. He had his heart set on a job with Major Cineplex, because he loves movies, but he only made it to the second interview with them- he thinks he was not "cute" enough by their standards [it's true that most of the gay guys working there are more fem than B.; maybe that's what he meant].

At the same time, other areas of my life improved and I moved to a more convenient place in town- so convenient, in fact, that B. was over every other day. And then every day- and then he was keeping clothes in my closet. By midsummer [in the western sense] he was practically living with me, though still paying rent in his other room. The job hunting had virtually stopped, however, and I was steeling myself to leave him because it seemed to be only a matter of time. I dreaded it, though, because in one sense it was a dream fulfilled- a lovely, attractive guy living with me who loved me and genuinely found me attractive [his picture collection is full of images of men like me] and who, even though for fishy reasons, wasn't asking me to support his life.

I've seen what happens, however, when farang fail to set reasonable limits on their boundaries and what they'll put up with from their Thai partners. You wind up with the farang who has a Thai boyfriend who is married with kids, and also has a Thai boyfriend. All living together (sometimes without the farang!) in the house the farang bought, built, and paid for. I was not going to be that farang.

Fortunately, rather than leave me dithering and wondering whether to follow through with the ultimatum on the basis of no more evidence than just because, B. finally gave me every reason to dump him.

To be continued!

"Steven"

Cruising and Thai Wait Staff At Restaurants

Restaurants are great places for cruising in Thailand. Actually, that may be half the point for some of the workers- find someone tolerably good looking with a bit of money to throw around and give up the drudgery.

Heard a story from a friend- he was at some place near Silom and asked the obviously gay, cute waiter out- the waiter didn't have a phone but called the guy later- 1st question: will you buy me a mobile phone? that was the end of that. but next time the guy went to the restaurant, the waiter gave HIM his new mobile phone number... sometimes pie in the sky DOES come for these guys...

"Steven"

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component

Sadly, in Thailand, there are almost no relationships that do not have a financial component of SOME kind that is more actively realized than in "Western" countries. I've been told by straight guys (level ones with jobs and wives who've decided to live here, not barflies) that Thais love, but there's always a practical side to it- in an almost Victorian sense. That doesn't mean that there won't be guys who love you for you, but there will always be at least a little tiny bit of awareness that you have so much more money than they do, and in the Thai way of thinking this obliges you, patron-style. You could think of it as you being a father figure.

That said, there's a bit of difference between patronage and milking. An average salary in Bangkok is 4-6000 BAHT a month for a 10hr a day, 6 day a week job. You can judge the sincerity of requests for 25K a month by this, right?

Real Thais who work and have real jobs have little time or money to hang out in bars for any reason. If they do go, it's typically to all-Thai bars with small groups of friends who stand around a table dancing and drinking together- a hard social milieu for farang to break into, though it can happen. I recommend Dreaded Ned's website (do a google search) for detailed maps of gay Bangkok to locate bars of this sort.

so here's the deal: A real Thai with a real life is possible to find, but he will have little time to hang out with you and you'll need to bear the shared costs of any expensive nightlife. An idle Thai with plenty of free time for you and/or money is almost always dodgy in some way (where does the money come from? how does he have all this time to spend in bars?) or rich, which is often worse. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Good luck!

"Steven"

Thai lying on via internet meeting rooms and older falang lying too

Considering the amount of Thai lying that goes on via internet meeting rooms (and everywhere else), it's hard to be too surprised or that older farang guys are lying, too. Half the Thai profiles on the major internet gay rooms are obvious hookers. Then again, meeting people live doesn't always result in much greater honesty- I guess no matter what, people should be careful where and how they meet people for dating!

The last guy I met online complained to me, too, about the number of Internet farang liars and scum he met... it was 3 weeks later that he admitted he already had a longterm boyfriend!!! So much for being straightforward and honest!

"Steven"

How Dodgy Is My Candidate?

Ok, here are the things I *know* to be true about him:

1. He is an art student at Silpakorn, and fairly good (has gotten pieces of his that I've seen into magazines and suchlike).
2. He speaks English suspiciously well (has an electronic dictionary).
3. He does not seem to have a lot of free cash (rides the bus, few extravagant spending habits that I've seen).
4. He's very bright- not only in English and art, but also in computers and a certain amount of philosophy.
5. He has a personal computer (compaq laptop).
6. He has been to Korea and dated at least one gay man there.
7. He has won several art awards (I've seen portfolio including award presentations).
8. He has worked for both a marketing agency and a pottery export company doing art for pay.
9. He has a number of pairs of shoes, some of which look fairly expensive.
10. He has a small number of tasteful clothes, but rather a variety of kinda provocative underwear.
11. In a bit of a financial bind recently, he sold his mobile phone to pay his rent and refused to take my 1-month offer of help.
12. He has obviously had quite a lot of experience with farangs- fair enough, I've been dating Thais, myself.
13. He freely admits to going to gay bars where farang often go; for example, DJ station- however he also goes to all-Thai gay bars with his friends.
14. I do all the paying for dates (he's a STUDENT, for gosh sakes), but he doesn't ask for other money and seems embarrassed quite often when I pay. He always makes sure to thank me for anything I've paid for.
15. When he's with me he seems more and more affectionate- not suddenly declaring his undying love, but measuring me just as I am measuring him.

Here are things he has TOLD me but for which I have no direct confirmation:
1. He is from Isaan and has a poor family.
2. He has an "aunt" married to a Korean man, which explains his trip to Korea and while he was there he earned the money for the computer by cleaning a restaurant for a few months
3. He's been at school funded partially by an uncle, partially by the Korean married aunt, partially by his brother, and partially by government funding (but overall has little spare money).
4. He's had a stingy Spanish boyfriend whom he is now considering breaking up with in my favor- claims the guy never even took him out to a movie or anything else but soi food.
5. He lives with a few other students in a typical student-block room near his university, but spends a lot of his time working and painting (I can confirm this anytime, 'cause he's not shy or paranoid about my visiting him in his home or at the studio- just haven't had time to go yet)

Now, the money and farang experience and the poverty all perhaps don't QUITE add up- but on the other hand, he's not apparently out to milk all farang for all he can get, either, and I think the feeling side of things is real; I'm convinced at the very least there's already a real friendship beginning to operate. Physically, things started slow but are getting hotter.

So, how sincere do you think this guy is? I'm trying to believe in him as much as I can, but it's in light of a recent relationship which went sour despite my ex-'s honest affection for me, because I found out about the other 3-4 guys bankrolling him (the ex). What do you recommend?

"Steven"

Thais often being cheated on by their partners (Thai or otherwise) and Thais often cheating on their partners (Thai or otherwise)

Just a few thoughts

1. Buddhism in Thailand is a hodge-podge overlaid onto traditional animism, with a healthy dose of Brahmin mysticism sprinkled on top. It is heavily associated with family rituals (birth, marriage, burial), and, yes, shamanism and superstition. As with many belief systems, the "pure" form of Buddhism is only a theory; what happens in practice can be quite different. Going to the temple to "sanctify" your relationship might be a big deal indeed for your guy.

2. Racism is alive and well in Thailand- guys who are "darker" are perceived (and perceive themselves, sadly) to be socially inferior. Quite often those of lighter hue are also, as a result, higher social class (and richer). *Certain* foreigners who have dated various Thais also feel that those of Chinese-Thai descent often have some snobbery-related personality problems. So there could be some explanation for a bias by gay foreigners in Thailand towards one or another group of whatever colour. Plus part of the interest and spark for many foreigners here is the difference- why go all the way around the world and date what turns out to be another Western-thinking white guy?

If I were more cynical, I might add that the "you're the first farang I've dated" is considerd one of the oldest lines in the book locally here.

3. Thais in general (but never specifically, I'm sure) are very, very, very, very jealous. I attribute this to:
a. Thais often being cheated on by their partners (Thai or otherwise),
b. Thais often cheating on their partners (Thai or otherwise), and
c. Thais being very emotional and sentimental with their partners.

I hasten to add that I'm sure no falang reader of this blog is in either category a. or b. with their Thai partner(s).

4. The submission you describe comes with obligation and a delayed price- there's no free lunch. It seems you are lucky enough to have a fairly self-sufficient young man, but if he should ever face ANY kinds of problems- consider yourself obligated and responsible (as a social superior with a relationship to an inferior would be in Thailand). Furthermore, this extends if necessary to the needs of his family, if your relationship continues long enough.

5. You should visit here not only once, but many, many times before you even consider moving here (especially for the sake of a Thai guy you've met outside). Ask lots of questions. Don't take everything on faith; ask for independent verification and evidence. Don't let him be the only source of information about his family and friends. If it involves any large sums of your money, make sure the paperwork is checked by a farang law firm working for you but familiar with Thai law. Make other Thai and local farang friends and get their perspective on your guy, too.

Just some thoughts

"Steven"

Living with a Thai Boy

O. survived a move with me, but 3 months after my ultimatum (this would be May of last year) he still showed no sign of getting a real job. He would hem and haw and mentioned that he was "taking care of his professor's dog," which really didn't sit up there on the top shelf of "Lame Excuses I Have Believed."

I was away for awhile on business. When I returned, O. was still the same. No money, but living expensively- how was he doing it?

In a taxi one afternoon I looked through his wallet out of curiosity, only to be surprised by the photo of another farang man- a bit older and larger than I am. O. blustered, then got defensive, then got angry. I refused to see him for a few days.

One day we went to check email together at an Internet cafe. I demanded to see his email suddenly. He seemed a bit apprehensive, for good reason: in his inbox was an email dated during my business trip:

"Dear O., I just wanted to thank you for a wonderful evening. I hope your hangover was not too bad. If you want to contact me after (date), please use (email address). Signed, (European Farang).

This also did not help. My suspicions were heightened to the point where I was looking for any way to get true information about O., so that I could make a well-justified decision about whether to stay with him or not. I knew that things were fishy as Heck, but I didn't like the thought of leaving him for the sake of suspicion only. And boy, did I get my chance.

It bears mentioning that all during this dodgy period, O. had been hinting that he would like me to help him financially (I had not been doing so) because if he ran out of money he might have to go back to Isaan. I kept asking when he was going to get a job.

Near the beginning of the new school year, O. claimed to have less than 5000B left to his name. It also happened that O. contracted a throat infection- a very, very bad throat infection. I nursed him for a day or two, and the infection got worse. I realized he really needed to see a doctor, but being a stubborn country lad he refused to go. Finally, after about 5 days of fevers and grouchiness, he admitted he was really sick. Just going to the road to catch a taxi for the hospital he threw up from the pain. I was exhausted from staying up looking after him and frightened about how sick he was, but glad to see him on the way to real medical care.

At that time, I had just gone through a very expensive month- I had moved and paid a big deposit on a new apartment, along with some other expenses- and my cash was low (actually, I probably only had 5-6000B in the bank, which I needed to last 8-9 days until the next payday). It occurred to me I would have to pay for O.'s hospital bills, and that I might even have to borrow money if he needed to stay for very long.

The hospital checked him in efficiently and quickly, and I was off to work. I called O.'s mobile a few times during the day but he didn't answer; probably he was asleep or heavily drugged.

When I returned home, I noticed the familiar bulge of O.'s wallet lying on his last pair of jeans on the floor- he hadn't used it or needed it since I had been taking care of him in his illness. Driven by some devil or angel, I opened it and found:

1. Pictures of 3 foreign men, including the one which I had previously seen.
2. Debit card receipts from the previous week in bars and restaurants totalling over 5000B in food and drink.
3. Records of appointments at a very expensive skincare spa
4. Phone numbers in other men's handwriting, including brief messages like "back on 3/5/05"
5. An ATM receipt from his bank account showing an outstanding balance of over 70,000B

"Steven"

My young Thai Boy

Sometime about November of last year, I met a young fellow, whom I'll call O.

He's changed my life 3 times so far, and I'd like to write more about him.

I went to an afternoon lunch of my gay friends on Gay Pride Day. Some of my friends' friends from Europe were in town, and they had brought along a young Thai fellow, O. O was shortish and slight, with an unfortunate mop of "Herman Munster" style hair [which is apparently popular with the senior uni students these days]. His complexion was not terribly good- still suffering from adolescent hormonal afflictions- but his broad smile and open expression were appealing. He was pretty quiet during our lunch, and what he did say was directed towards the Thai boyfriend of one of my friends there. I assumed he was the date of one of the Dutch gentlemen next to him, and so I went into automatic "no-flirting" mode with him. However, as the day went on, including an afternoon rowing in Lumphini Park before the actual parade [which, unfortunately, I felt was extremely poorly organized and insipid this year], I was convinced he was flirting with me.

While flattering, I despise it when acquaintances' dates show inappropriate interest in me- I think it is only polite for people to maintain the facade of happy couplehood in public, whatever one's relationship arrangements are. I did sneak a glance at him when he removed his shirt in Lumphini to cool off after rowing- attractive, muscular, light colored skin offsetting his jet black hair.

After the parade some of us wandered off to a fancy tourist restaurant for dinner, considerately paid for by our Dutch visitors. O was positioned next to me, and I began to suspect a bit of collusion... confirmed later by SMS messages from my good friend asking me if I was interested, because O had no boyfriend [he explained the Dutch man was a former/intermittent dating interest for O, but only as a tourist- and both he and O wanted O to find a regular partner]. My friend's Thai boyfriend had also known O for a year or so, and could vouch for him as a "real" type. Would I like them to set me up for a date? You betcha!

The Love of Siam - Thai Movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1152282/

Ijustwannateach - Viewing Profile

Ijustwannateach - Viewing Profile

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Sweet Memories - Bangkok Gay Pride 2006

Young Thai Boys Love The Older Falang Man ... and give the old man money

Don't want to be beating a dead horse, but thought I'd mention that I know of at least one 60-something yo who's been offered money by 20-something yo Thais to go with them when he wasn't particularly interested in doing it for fun. That's right, the younger Thais offered the older farang money.

Young Thais aren't all poor. Old guys aren't universally undesirable. And I think anyone who wants to tell someone who's THIRTY that they know his interests better than he does should go ahead and try- yeah- go out to some of these bars where you'll see a 30yo Thai sitting with his 50yo boyfriend, and TELL the Thai he shouldn't be dating such an old guy. Do it in the nasty condescending way you like to do it here, where you feel safe 'cause you're anonymous cowards. I just hope I'm there to see the aftermath.

As a "punch"line, I've been told by Thais in their early twenties that I'm just not old enough yet.

"Steven"

Domesticity And Gay Life, Stay-At-Home

As time passes, I appreciate more and more the value of a comfortable home that I can relax in with a family- a gay partner and close friends, at least, if adoption doesn't become an option.

I find I am the type to stay home and enjoy it, when I've found a good long-term partner. Or even by myself, I don't feel the need to be out on the town every night that it is possible.

I know other friends who just can't seem to stay home at all- if they've got a free night with no other plans, they will wind up in a bar or disco somewhere.

I've known Thais and foreigners on both extremes of this spectrum

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